The Chinese word for “sea turtle” (海龟, hǎiguī) is a nickname for Chinese who have returned to China after having gone abroad, usually for education. Ever since the financial crisis began and led to the current global economic downturn, many overseas Chinese have been considering returning to China. After all, their mere education and experience abroad make them more marketable for the opportunities back home. However, this decision is not an easy one to make with pros, cons, and plenty of different circumstances and opinions.
This is the first of three posts that Min and I have translated from a thread on the Wenxuecity.com discussion forums where overseas Chinese and Chinese returnees are discussing whether or not to return to China. Each post relates the experience and thoughts of a Chinese returnee, often comparing the differences between China and elsewhere. – Kai
Shanghai Life: One Year After Returning
Author: specta
In summary, I feel the pros > cons in coming back, and I haven’t yet thought of going back yet.
Biggest impression: Living in China, in one word: “tiring/exhausting”.
Work: Tiring. Although my fellow Chinese have made great progress in working professionalism in recent years, they are still far behind the Americans. To accomplish something, it is more than likely you will have to watch them as if you were babysitting, and aside from this, you simultaneously need to use even more pressure from those above while “establishing good relations” with those below. Actually, in America doing similar is also necessary, but it is clearly more so in China.
Asians are afraid of changes, with the Chinese and Japanese being the most obvious (even with companies like Toyota). Many things, upon reaching the time for implementation/execution, an “n” amount of opposing reasons appear. It is rarer to encounter people who also offer alternatives while opposing. How many changes can please everyone? The vast majority of the time, if the pros> cons, it will be decided to implement/execute [changes]. However, even if it is decided, subordinates may not necessarily cooperate. Anyway, Chinese have also become famous for not liking to follow instructions. I think the so-called “lack of execution ability” is related to this.
Overall, for the vast majority of work, cost-effectiveness is still higher in America.
Life: Pollution is too serious: Noise, dirty air, unreliable food products, bad traffic…
Noise and traffic is what I still cannot get used to. In Shanghai right now, roads/buildings are being repaired everywhere, disturbing the residents every day and every night. Appealing to the “relevant work units” is generally useless. Beyond this there are also neighbors remodeling their homes. If they are considerate, they keep the remodeling work to weekdays between 8am-6am. However, I’m just unlucky, encountering inconsiderate people twice in one year. Appealing to the property management is useless. Eventually, I became too lazy to fight it and accepted my fate.
Speaking of traffic, as long as you’re on the road, every second requires high concentration. Even if it is walking on the sidewalk, one must be cautious like a mouse ducking in and out of bicycles, and when encountering construction, anything could be dropped or thrown down from above. Even when it is a green light, you still need to check all four directions, as something could rush out at any time. I feel like the traffic light in the country is only for reference.
Food: The variety is numerous. However, for those who already have sensitive digest, like myself, you have to be careful. Over the past year since I’ve been back, I have gone to the hospital four times because of digestive problems. My digestion never had this kind of problem in the United States.
Housing: I don’t want to buy a house because I feel renting is less hassle, and more freedom. My biggest problem is that it is difficult to find an apartment with a drying machine (I can buy the machine, but when it comes to making a hole for the exhaust, many landlords are unwilling). I never used to think doing laundry was troublesome, but now I really dislike hanging up clothes to dry and then taking them down. When summer comes to Shanghai, some cotton clothes will also often become smelly. What a hassle!
Travel: Almost every place with a hill/mountain or water has been fenced off to charge admission fees. The main thing however is that there are too many people, too much pollution, and not many places that are truly worth seeing, especially near Shanghai. Even when you leave the city for leisure, it is often too crowded–last weekend I was thinking of going to Chongming Island, but after being told I had to wait 3-5 hours just to buy a ferry ticket? Forget it.
Shopping: The stuff in department stores or specialty retail stores make me think: “that much money for this sh*t? f**k it!” The only thing I have worn for a long time that was purchased from a department store was a pair of Erdos wool pants – can’t help it, Shanghai winters are cold. I usually have the clothes I wear to work tailored made at Dong Jia Du, or I will go to small stores near my places to find quality imported clothes. Overall, if you search more, you can find some good stuff at cheap prices.
Opportunity: I truly think one the opportunities for making money in China are more than the United States (regardless of whether it is white, yellow, or grey income). I myself have started trying a few based upon my interests — after all, if I am only working for foreign companies, the whole point of coming back would have been lost.


Great little article. I totally understand… but if too many successful, bright Chinese people go to the U.S. and stay, will things ever change?
At least a few of the good ones come back.
There seem to be plenty of successful, bright Chinese people that either stay in China or come back to China. So I guess I’m not all that worried about China. On the other hand, I think both countries would benefit from immigration policies that allow educated and talented people to make the most of their talents regardless of the country. I agree with John Doerr (Kleiner Perkins VC) who said that all non-Americans that earn advanced degrees in the US should receive a H1B visa stapled to the back of the diploma. I also think foreign investment and visas for foreign professionals should be liberalized in China so as to attract more international talent and capital into China.
BTW, hat tip to my friend Dexin (Twitter: @dexin) who pointed us to Wenxuecity and some of these posts. She shared that it is a common topic for Chinese here in the US to discuss over dinner at friend’s house. Should I go back to China, or stay in the US?
I have heard it stated that many Chinese here in the technical field feel like there is a “glass ceiling” for them in American companies, and they believe that if they go back to China they may have more senior level opportunities waiting for them.
My own grossly over-generalized perspective is: “Its better to be a boss in China than the US, but its better to be an employee in the US than in China.” Of course, its highly risky to jump from being an employee in the US to being a boss in China, as the adjustment can take some time, and a perspective shaped by focus on developed US and European markets can create some “habits” that need to be unlearned to approach the Chinese market.
Anyway, I hope to learn from the dialogue and debate among the “overseas” Chinese community about returning to China, in the hopes that some of these points might help me think through my own prospects in China as a complete foreigner (or more accurately as a 美籍华人 mei3 ji2 hua2 ren2)
Totally agree that it’s better to be an employee in US than in China. You work more reasonable hours and worry less…
I can’t quite agree with what the guy said about working in China though. Bureaucracy exists everywhere and people are afraid of change everywhere. Having worked in Shanghai and Bay area, I feel the working culture is pretty similar only that in US people are generally nicer and more respectful.
Living in Shanghai is not that hard either although all the stuff he whined about is kinda true… But really I would much rather living in Shanghai than in San Jose.
True, if I could I rather live in Hong Kong or Shanghai, but usually people have to work long hours and pay is not so good, unless you actually made it to management or opened up your own business.
Thanks for the translation. I always thought wxc was blocked – when did that change (or am I mistaken)?
Min, great translation! But I have get used to this all – pollution, unsafe food…
No one cares so I’ve even given up to complain about this. NO SOLUTION in years.
Just curious, how is one definted as “sea turtle” – what if you were born in mainland but the family moved and you attended high school, or Jr high, or even elementary school.
i think a typical “sea turtle” is someone who at least completes university education in China and goes abroad, thus he/she has a very strong Chinese culture and society awareness and a sense of where is the real “home”. Otherwise, “return” doesn’t apply.
For those who complain about too many people, many queues every where, just go to India. They are even more crowded, the infrastructure is way worse there. Maybe try Japan, where people in the subway are packed like sardines. Apartments in Japan are way smaller.
There seem to be plenty of successful, bright Chinese people that either stay in China or come back to China. So I guess I’m not all that worried about China. On the other hand, I think both countries would benefit from immigration policies that allow educated and talented people to make the most of their talents regardless of the country. I agree with John Doerr (Kleiner Perkins VC) who said that all non-Americans that earn advanced degrees in the US should receive a H1B visa stapled
apartment shanghai