As an expecting first-time mother living in Shanghai, I found this topic from a local Shanghai “mommy” online community last week to be really interesting. A pregnant woman asked whether she should listen to her husband’s suggestion that she go give birth in the United States instead of China. Unfortunately, the original post has been deleted, but you can still see the cached page here.
This Chinese woman also wrote an email to a Lian Yue（连岳), a well-known, award winning blogger, asking for advice. Lian Yue responded to her on his blog. Here is a translation of the original email and Yue’s reply:
Lian Yue,
I’ve been a reader of your blog for a few years, and I never thought I would write to ask for your help one day.
I’ve been pregnant for 4 months and at the same time, I have been in a fight because of it for 4 months. My husband has been insisting that I have this baby in the United States, in order to give him/her a US citizenship. We already got our travel visas to the US this past September so the visa won’t be a problem. Plus, one of my colleagues did the same thing earlier this year in Los Angeles, thus giving my husband more confidence that we can do it as well.
However, I don’t see the necessity. Besides the expense of hundreds of thousands of RMB, is US citizenship really so important? My husband is very disappointed with the current situation in China. He always says China is going downwards and is hopeless. Although I disagree with him, I never care to argue with him. But, all of these negative opinions have became his reasons for me to go to the US to give birth.
After returning from a trip to the US this past October, my husband was more affirmed with his idea. In the beginning, I said “No” so he started a cold war* with me. Later, I had to say “yes” because I was too tired to argue with him further. However, I never thought it through: even if our child is a US citizen, he/she will still grow up and be educated in China anyway. The only convenience will be that he/she might have an easier time applying for a US university or job in 20 years. But, how do I know if he/she wants to be a US citizen or wants to go to the US in 20 years ?
I’ve asked a lot of friends for opinions. Some are in support, some have concerns, and some are opposed to it. Lian Yue, could you help me out, even with a short reply: Do you think I should give my baby a US nationality?
- A mom-to-be expecting answers
* cold war: Where two people generally ignore and do not talk to each other, aka “the silent treatment” or “cold shoulder.”
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A mom-to-be expecting answers:
1. If your plan is feasible and you can afford the expense, I AGREE that you should go to the US to give birth.
2. Marcel Duchamp became a US citizen in his late years, reason: more freedom with a US passport. He was a Frenchman originally. Freedom is always good to have.
3. If your husband truly believes that China is hopeless and will be “finished” sooner or later, he has a very strong reason on this matter. If he is right, it won’t be easy for your kid to go to US when it happens. According to my optimistic outlook, China is not hopeless and won’t be finished.
4. Even if he/she chooses to stay in China in the future, it will probably still be safer [to be an American] anyway. You won’t need to worry about being sent to lunatic asylum without cause. Freedom from fear is a beautiful thing.
5. He/she could become the President of United States.
6. Although we have an old saying that “Offspring have their own fortune,” the next half of this saying is: “American offspring have more fortune.”
7. Of course, there will be people who will ask, “So Lian Yue, why do you maintain Chinese nationality? Why not go become an American?”
8. It is because I grumble too much, often making criticisms. As a Chinese citizen, it is more fun to do these things.
9. The most important thing is, I am old, so it doesn’t matter any more.
Lian Yue (连岳)
Dec 10 2008
What’s your opinion, CN Reviews readers?
Ever considered worldwide tax?
Tell the expected mommy to go to Canada or Australia to have her baby!
Interesting — I’ll be making this decision myself a few years down the road. I’m perfectly OK with a baby that’s SWISS MADE, by the way. ;-)
At least the US no longer grants citizenship to parents of children born in the US.
I’m wondering just how much money this couple has. Going to the hospital for anything without insurance is ridiculously expensive. Plus there’s always the possibility that the customs officer will turn the couple around and put them on the next flight back to China…that’d sure be a waste.
If this couple is planning to stay here for a few more years, then won’t their child need a visa to stay？ From what I know, China is pretty strict about not allowing dual citizenship, one of my friends actually had to go to her hometown and denounce her Chinese citizenship.
Also, on a completely different note this couple has other problems if they resolve their problems by giving each other the silent treatment.
You obviously don’t know Chinese people very well! They always solve problems in relationships in stupid ways, or just never argue about anything.
This was the same issue that my wife and I had… although I’m an American citizen, born and bred, but she’s a Chinese national. We also debated the possibilities, the good things and the “red flags”. We just decided to have the baby in Shanghai… then claim him as a US citizen. I think the writer is right… it will benefit the child in twenty years… but what about now… the cost IN China for educating an international child or US citizen is really expensive too right? I mean can the US citizen child go to a normal school??? LEGALLY?>???? That was our question. I’m not sure.
Wise choice! The Chinese schools are horrible concentration camps anyone with good sense would try all means to avoid. I myself was devastated by them (even though I chose to drop out of high school) and have been having a hard time struggling to cure my wounds. The schools are even worse today than they were use to be 20 years ago when I was being tortured in them…
LoL, the hyperbole is amusing me to no end.
Please don’t use your baby as a ticket out or for fortune. China is not war-torn and dire like the old days. And if you do not pay for your uninsured emergency delivery in the US, that means the American taxpayer carries the burden for something that you or the Chinese government / society should bear. Sounds like you married and are having a baby with the wrong husband, since he is more interested in leaving “hopeless” China and going to the US.
Basically, you’re paying money for “anti-Chinese insurance”. If anything goes wrong, you can take advantage of the nation your kid has nominal citizenship over. On the other hand, maybe there’s a better country than the United States? The United States has dual taxation…
I hate to sound like an American jingoist, but I think the baby should only take on American citizenship if the parents are willing to raise the kid as an American, ie. teaching the child about American values and history (warts and all) and instilling in the kid that he/she should contribute to his/her local community and country. I think citizenship should be something more deep and meaningful than just convenience of going through customs or entering university. I think that right now, arguably, becoming an American citizen means giving up one’s PRC-centric idenitiy, but I don’t think it necessarily means giving up a broader Chinese heritage. Americanness, at its best, should be inclusive of various idenitities.
Also, as mentioned, China is not war torn, and arguably, China may have as many (or more) economic opportunities as the US in 20 years. So, although practical considerations matter, it’d be nice to consider what it means to be a citizen.
It’s up to the couple where to have their baby born. They have the right. Every citizen of the earth also have the right to choose where they would like to live. You are welcome to come over here to cherish our rich Chinese heritage. We are also free to pursue the freer freedom (excuse me for my poor diction) and practical advantages in other parts of the world…
No actually he is NOT free to come to China as a CITIZEN, your country doesn’t grant foreigners citizenship. He can have a work visa, so his skills and knowledge can be absorbed and used by his Chinese partners and then kicked out…We in the West take any and all Chinese, most of whom I know have their wife and child living off the system in the new country while Dad is back home with his er nai and making corrupt deals repping a western company and getting kick backs from his pals. Welcome to CHINA!
Though a Great country in so many ways, and with a “rich cultural heritage” that I personally like very much, she has some serious issues, anyone with a basic understanding of economics can foresee the doom… ever heard of “exponential numbers”? Try doing some projections of growth/pollution/inflation/birthrate unemployment/ vs space etc on China, or even better read McKinsey’s report on China in 20 years time that is easy to find on the web for free. That basically sums it all up.
There used to be an empire called Rome which had a very rich cultural heritage….
Wow, someone sounds bitter…
This is beautiful. And so typical.
Chinese officials berate the US, and then send their children there to study.
Chinese nationalists wave Chinese flags but drive Japanese cars, and stage protests against the French by picketing the international schools in Beijing, only to encounter Chinese parents dropping off their kids there.
Chinese athletes speak of their deep love for the Motherland, from their condos in Florida where they await their green cards.
Chinese students talk about China’s rise and the US in decline, and then apply for graduate school using forged documents. They then go on to complain about the US visa policy that they themselves tried to subvert.
Chinese academics return to China to assist in its development, saying that they are glad to be home again, but want to retain their US passport.
And so now, as China–the victim, always the victim of conspiracies (imagined)–has citizens who actually debate the issue of whether to have their child in the US. Not for health reasons, mind you; but because even after 30 years of reform and one of the fastest growth rates in the world over the past decade, they still think that outside China is better.
And why shouldn’t they? Scratch any cadre or businessperson in China–especially the ones who snicker about laowai when they see a foreigner on the street–and you will find someone who declares their everlasting love for China, right before they line up to get a visa to anywhere but China.
What this couple is doing is telling and it is disgraceful. The value China lacks most of all is consistency, and the chief modern attribute of all too many Chinese is hypocrisy.
What is it that they say? Love and hate are opposite sides of the same coin?
Or that populations are diverse and that people can hold two opposing thoughts in their head at the same time…
Surprise! So the Israelis are hypocrites for allowing conductors to conduct Wagner in their concert halls? Or the Koreans are hypocrites for buying Japanese goods? Or the consumption of beluga caviar by American capitalists is a deeply unpatriotic act since the two producers are either the “imperialist” Russians or the “Islamofascist” Iranians?
I get really annoyed at people that acquire US citizenship as some kind of safety net when they have no real connection or loyalty to the US. This child is going to grow up Chinese in absolutely every way, yet by virtue of spending a few weeks in the US as an infant, is going to be an “American.” Ridiculous.
I empathise with the father in this case, I wouldn’t want my child to grow up in China, or in Hong Kong for that matter. I’m an Aussie, although my son was born in Hong Kong as I work and live in Hong Kong, and one of the first things I did after his birth was apply for his citizenship by descent. When he is old enough, he’ll be joining his grandparents in Sydney.
I’ll bet if they had the chance, every Chinese Mainlander would want to get out.
“…if they had the chance, every Chinese Mainlander would want to get out.”
Then we wouldn’t be called “traitors” anymore!!! (Of course, we always publicly state that we love our homeland!)
A baby born to American citizens abroad can easily have their American passport within days of their birth. Our baby was born in Hong Kong and we reported to the American consulate when she was three days old to get the Birth Abroad certificate and an emergency passport with one-year vailidity. As far as the American government is concerned, she is still a natural-born American citizen. It is a myth that you must be born inside the US or its territories to be an American citizen. It is the easiest way, but if one or both of the parents are already citizens, children born abroad can be declared natural born Americans. Mitt Romney’s father was born in Mexico, and yet still was able to run for president because he received his American citizenship at birth.
Oh boy, this post depicts quite a good share of naiveness. First, one is not granted the entry to the US systematically. I would think that this situation is kind of a red flag to the US immigration. Also, this very case shall not be generalised in a way that everyone can chose deliberately where to give birth. The context is surely favorable to the couple here.
Also, Marcel Duchamp, give me a break. How long did it take to dig this? This, by no means, prove you should give birth in the US. This is another debate, but Europe has proven to offer more freedom that the US.
In my opinion, I think China is full of hope, it’s very peacful. Becoming a Chinese citizen is so happy. Why do you choose another country?
Chinese citizenship is ever more priceless and nearly impossible to gain later. US citizenship, on the other hand, is much easier to gain but more costly in the long run, culturally, philosophically, etc.
More universities within China re being recognized for their excellence worldwide. More foreign US universities have classes and agreements in China because they simply lack the students in the US.Besides, there are also many US programs that provide scholarships for study in the US.
Over all, the studies in the US are not as holistic as those in China. Worldview is a strict dichotomy. Within the ever globalizing world, Chinese worldview is more congruent with 80% of the world. So are the values.
A Chinese citizenship is also tied to something far greater- to actually being part of the Chinese family. Citizenship for the US by contrast is alienating. One must also consider how the Patriot Act has affected Americans, greatly delimited press, speech for media and citizens, etc.
Please consider these things..
I don’t think any of the good US universities have classes and agreements in China because they “lack students” but rather the have them “for the benefit of” their students.
Um, I’m going to have to disagree with your statement that “studies in the US are not as holistic as those in China” and “Chinese worldview is more congruent with 80% of the world. So are the values.” Those are very strong assertions you’re making without any explanation whatsoever.
Your opinion about Chinese citizenship being tied to “something far greater” is just your opinion. Words like “the Chinese family” sound warm and cozy but they’re empty words until you can explain its appeal more specifically. Also, claiming that citizenship for the US is “alienating” depends on how you explain it. Are you suggesting that this couple’s child would be alienated for being a US citizen instead of a Chinese one? Or are you making a wider (and wilder) claim that anyone would feel more alienated being a US citizen than a Chinese citizen?
While the Patriot Act has arguably negatively affected the freedoms of American citizens, I don’t see how a Chinese citizen can say that with a straight face living in a country where the freedoms of speech for both citizens and media are substantially worse than those for Americans even with the Patriot Act. This is the kind of idiotic argument a Chinese person should NEVER make.
Please consider these things.
@Xiangjun thanks for your comments.
Here’s my opinion:
1. At this point I personally feel that US Citizenship affords more freedom to travel and emigrate than Chinese citizenship. It is more valuable because it also comes with more legally protected rights.
2. I don’t think you are correct that US universities lack students. However, many of the top students come from all around the world: India, China, Russia, Ghana, Europe, etc. In fact a meritocratic academic system is a strength for the US.
3. I don’t know enough about education in China, but I seriously doubt that the worldview presented in the Chinese education system is as open as that presented in American system. I don’t dispute that Americans often lack information about the rest of the world in their everyday life and the media may be biased.
4. American citizenship is also tied to “something greater.” There are a set of values that come with being an American citizen. It is the belief in a society that provides all individuals, regardless of class, race or religion, with opportunity for “the pursuit of happiness” and a whole bunch of other values, including personal freedoms, the rule of law, the right to self-determination and self-rule.
No doubt there are plenty of problems with America. I would be happy to see America be part of the global community of nations and relinquish the role of global policeman. Let the Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Europeans and Middle Eastern countries take on some of these global responsibilities for a change.
I am an American with a Chinese wife and we are planning to have a baby next year. My question is should the child stay a Chinese citizen until he gets 17 and go to school cheaper or make him American and pay an outraguos price. I will be living and working here since I just bought a home here. So I am happy here but not sure what to do about the citizenship part. I want the baby to be American so it can go to a university in the states. Just not sure what to do
If you have ever been in this situation please email me at oreo08132006@yahoo.com…thanks
i really don’t think it matter where your child will be born as long as it’s healthy and safe with their parents.america has alot of hidden secrets and one has to realize that being rich still brings you misery. some americans are naive and think they ar the top of the world where as you have others that are fair to life. i have no problem with americans but the arrogance that they share is like a monkey in a cage when it comes to war… they still lose lives.
hi, I just go through from this site and also want to ask one question as like miss Lian asked from you, that I am a Pakistani 6 months pregnant woman, and as you know the current situation of Pakistan I dont feel my children safe here, as I have visit visa of US, so suggest me that should I go there for delivery?
I am affraid as some people say that they will offload you by knowing that you are visiting there for the sake of delivery, and I have to take decision within 2 to 3 days, because after that I wont be able to travel internationally, Kindly help me out.
Thanks.