In early May, Christine Lu and I met up to develop our idea of bringing a group of U.S. bloggers and social media people to have in-depth and direct dialogue with Chinese bloggers.
We brought our half-baked ideas to China to discuss with some of the English “bridge” bloggers I follow and respect the most, such as Paul Denlinger, Andrew Lih, Kaiser Kuo, William Moss, Jianshuo Wang and Tom Melcher. We also spoke with CNBloggerCon committee members like Isaac Mao, Tangos Chan, Herock, Shizhao (on wikipedia), Ying Xue, Bruce Wang, and Yuanzi. From these meetings, we felt “not alone” in our observations about the growing misperceptions of Chinese and Western attitudes toward each other that was best described by Davesgonechina on Mutant Palm as the SchizOlympics. We received profound advice, and heartfelt encouragement, and for that we are grateful.
At this point of beginning, I feel I should share some of my motivation for this effort (much of which I’m sure is shared by Christine).
In 2008, it is more important than ever before to build bridges of understanding between the people of China and the people of the United States and other Western countries.
Situation
Globalization increasingly brings the people of the world into contact. We enrich each other through global trade, but that trade also makes us increasingly dependent on each other within this economic system.
In theory, enlightened self-interest should keep the system running along. But in reality, not everyone benefits equally, and not everyone sees the system as fair.
Problem
The economic interconnection caused by globalization has outstripped our current level of truly understanding each other on a social or cultural level. Within the English-speaking world and the Chinese-speaking world, only a small fraction of readers can read or understand the other language (maybe more on the Chinese side). And between English- and Chinese-speaking worlds, differences in outlook may exist. These differences come from what our parents told us, what our schools taught us, and what our news media reported. On the Chinese-side, there has been a history of government controlled education and media. On the English-side, there is a tradition of free press and free speech, but a media industry influenced by economic self-interest and popular opinion.
The result of this is that mainstream media cannot be solely relied upon to help the people of China and the West get the information and opinions they need.
Without this understanding, popular opinion could increasingly become protectionist in the West, and nationalistic in China. A spark over oil, food, scarce resources, trade, or monetary policy could ignite national passions that would dramatically reduce the policy flexibility of even enlightened national leaders seeking to do what is best for their country and the world.
We’re already seeing signs of these sparks. The reporting on the Tib3t4n crackdown, the torch relay protests, the (L) China movement, and the misinterpretation of the three-day entertainment ban after the earthquake as censorship-are all examples of how different people see events differently, and are largely uninterested in hearing the other sides point of view.
What we believe
We believe in the power of networks and social media. We believe that bloggers and social media participants can play a big role in spreading ideas and information, around the editorial or censorship filter of mainstream media. In China, we feel that bloggers are the pioneers of free press and are pushing the limits of freedom of speech and expression in a way that will ultimately be good for the Chinese people and its government. In the West, bloggers are also playing an important role as citizen media, in insuring free press in the face of economic pressure faced by mainstream media.
We believe in the power of small numbers. We believe a small number of people can make a large difference. That’s because we believe that the right ideas can spread like wildfire, and it doesn’t take many people to create the right idea. But it does take the right people and the right environment to foster the ideas.
What we aim to do
In partnership with the CNBloggerCon organizing committee, we seek to bring a U.S. delegation of 10 bloggers and social media activities to the 2008 CNBloggerCon on November 15-16 in Guangzhou, China. Prior to the conference, we want to bring this group of bloggers to Beijing and Shanghai to meet up with a small number of Chinese bloggers and social media entrepreneurs, perhaps departing Sun November 9 and arriving Mon evening November 10, for a total of seven nights in three cities in China.
What we don’t want to do
We don’t want to spoil the party. We respect the needs of Chinese bloggers to have a focused conference addressing their needs for dialogue and relationship building. We don’t want the lack of Chinese language fluency of the international bloggers, or lack of understanding of the Chinese social media scene, to slow down or distract from the goals of the conference. To that end, we are soliciting input from both the CNBloggerCon committee and numerous Chinese and Anglophone bloggers to make sure we don’t spoil the party. I’ll share more about the feedback that we received, but it includes feedback from Isaac Mao, Tangos Chan, Shizhao, Herock, Kaiser Kuo, William Moss, Tom Melcher, Bruce Wang, Yuan Zi, Ying Xue, and Jianshuo Wang (who expressed some valid concerns for us to consider).
What’s next?
Christine Lu and I will start blogging about our concept in an open fashion to gather feedback and ideas, and sharpen our own thinking about what we want to do. Then, we will will post it to the official CNBloggerCon blog to share it more broadly. In the meantime, we’ll be in dialogue with people to figure out who to invite and how we are going to pay for this. This is a completely non-profit endeavor for both Christine and me, but we want to make sure that “scholarships” are available for any bloggers who can’t pay their own way to the tour and the conference (which may be a lot of them since bloggers are not by nature a wealthy bunch!)
How you can get involved
Please share you ideas. We have at the core of this effort the idea of a very small group of maybe 20 people total who engage in dialogue in an intimate setting. There may be other related events or initiatives that are open. So please get in touch with me or Christine to begin the discussion.
Also, please share your concerns. We absolutely do not want to trample on the grassroots nature of the conference. We want to support the development of the Chinese blogosphere and don’t want to spoil it for anyone. So tell us how we can add to things.
UPDATE:
Paul Denlinger of China Vortex adds his voice to both the idea that more dialogue is needed and “I hope that this event is not turned into a spectacle. The way to do that is to start talking to each other, through our blogs, NOW.” Agreed with both of his points.
I think it’s awesome that you’re sensitive to this issue. Translated more literally, the CNBloggercon (中文网志年会) would actually be the ZHBloggercon , the Chinese *Language* Bloggercon – that blogging could be a universal something reinterpreted in Chinese. I think there was a lot of pride at the early Bloggercons that the Chinese webloggers could put on a conference of “their own”, and that this is still a big issue.
It’s good to hear hints that you’re just as sensitive to the issue of commercialization. Like I commented on Wang Jianshuo’s weblog, the DIY spirit of blogging has slowly been leaking out of the conference, and the “Shanghai clique” of Web 2.0 people tends to be more about making money off the net (not even the blogosphere anymore) than about allowing people to express themselves freely and creatively through online publishing. It is my personal opinion that the Web 2.0 stuff should stay at the Web 2.0 conferences, and that the CNBloggercon should concentrate on blogging – in education, social activism, technology, etc.
@Micah, I’ve always been under the impression that giving the event a web 2.0/investment/wealth creation veneer has been the safest strategy organizers have been able to come up with—organizers who have an agenda, this being China after all, to make sure “grassroots” voices are given mic time. Do you think a CNBloggercon which paid more attention to the social side of the ‘sphere would have made it into a fourth year, or am I just being too cautious?
I do see this as the case, and I think it’s a compromise that most people who see it as undesirable also see as mostly necessary. Guangzhou’s not Shanghai, though, and with the way things seem to playing out so far, it probably would have been better to just keep the thing in Shanghai.
As Elliott mentioned, we are being sensitive to preserving the core of what CNBloggercon is about and it’s a big reason for why we traveled over to China to meet with the committee.
Having said that, the Beijing and Shanghai segments of this tour can offer an opportunity to address web 2.0 interests — including meetups and tours of startups that have opened their doors to us such as Tudou, Kijiji, etc — while not interfering with the actual agenda for CNBloggercon in Guangzhou.
Without a doubt, there will be an interest on the part of the international bloggers we invite to learn more about the web 2.0 scene in China. Hence the decision to incorporate a visit to Beijing and Shanghai that is independent of the actual conference but supported by the committee as part of our larger vision for bridging the gap.
Thanks for your feedback and look forward to more. :)
Right, and how many prominent Guangzhou bloggers at this point are refusing to take part in this year’s CNBloggercon primarily because a) foreigners began trumpeting their role as co-organizers before a host city and representatives from it had even been chosen; and b) these foreigners up until this point have played no role within the Chinese blogosphere itself whatsoever? Is this sensitivity with American characteristics or what?
Whoa, did it suddenly get a bit hostile in here?
@Feng37,
just to be clear, (a) we are not “co-organizers” of the conference, but rather guests and visitors to the conference. we are are simply co-organizing an international delegation to China with the conference being part of the itinerary. (b) we don’t claim to be “part” of the Chinese blogosphere but seek to build bridges with the Chinese blogosphere. Do you have any suggestions how we can do this in a good way?
Elliott and Christine,
Although a good idea on the surface, I dont think at this point you will get any takers who are US or Canadian born to take part in the meetup due to the animosity that I see is pretty evident from Chinese bloggers like Feng37.
Why would any of us that are in the US or Canada take a week away from our businesses, families and blogs to have venom directed toward us because we are foreigners usurping territorial blogging rights in China?
Now the events you have outside of CN Bloggercon look great, but it is not worth the time and expense and lost revenue to take part in that when we can if so inclined get the same thing by taking part in a trade mission or trade tour organized by either the federal governments in either Canada or the US or via one of the states and or provinces in either country.
Likewise, prominent bloggers like Sam Lawrence, Stowe Boyd, Guy Kawasaki etc will not have any interest in attending this Blogger meetup / tour with the animosity that is quite evident towards North American bloggers. (You may get a few junior or low level bloggers from the US or Canada to take part but they wont be able to offer the insights I think you were looking for from A-List bloggers like Guy Kawasaki)
Finally, I am for improving relations and perceptions on both sides but to be honest…bloggers are not the way to get that done. It is and will continue to occur though via business relations that are part and parcel of many of our daily lives. I know after working with many Chinese companies that Feng37 is the exception in China…thus again why would I or anyone else be willing to take part in this when I am sure amongst Chinese bloggers Feng37 is probably the norm.
@Feng37,
By the way, if Global Voices Online would like to help lead and shape this, you are more than welcome to. In fact, I already reached out to EthanZ and Rebecca on this…
John,
I’ve actually had the opportunity in recent weeks of personally meeting and discussing with some key US A-List bloggers prior to the China trip, all of who have expressed interest. The level of insight and access this tour would offer in Beijing and Shanghai is in itself a grassroots effort on the part of those on both sides of the “gap” we’re trying to close and involve key individuals that gave us the confidence to fly out to China to move this idea forward into an actual plan.
Bloggers are exactly the way to get this done as unlike mainstream media or the business community (I spent 5 years while in Shanghai on Amcham committees myself), there is a common thread of wanting to get to the core of things that are often controversial or untried and bringing it out in the open for dialog and discussion…or simply just doing it for the sake of trying out an idea that has never been tried before. Because as long as comments can run on a single thread, you will still never know.
I’ve had the opportunity of interviewing 100+ China business professionals in the past year. Their top recurring advice they always offer for those interested in learning more about China is to hop on a plane and check it out for themselves. What we are putting together is no different in my mind to what a trade tour or the US government would put together if they had the vision, foresight or determination to do so. The difference – the fundamental difference – is that 10 trade delegates fly back and forth on various tours each year and will maybe tell 10 other people about the impact of their trip. 10 influencers in social media have the ability to blog from day one on the tour and become eyes and ears and insight for millions of readers worldwide who just might also be inspired one day to hop on a plane and see China for themselves. The very act of doing so is a catalyst for change in and of itself.
Christine and Elliott,
I wanted to add one more comment to let you guys know that I fully commend you for your ideas. People like the two of you are LEADERS and have a tendency to scare followers…whom there appear to be a few of in the China Blogosphere.
I am behind you, unlike Peng37 who appears to have animosity towards anything outside of China.
But again I do not think that Bloggers per se can lead an effort to bridge the gulf for better understanding and relations between cultures. Even here in the US and Canada where we do have a common language (for the most part…I as a Canadian cannot understand southern US accents and many Americans tease Canadians from the western Canadian provinces about our Canadian accents)there are regional differences and cliques that bloggers have made worse….not better.
I have been traveling to China for years…my first trip was in 1996 and have traveled back about 11 times since then. That is why I know that business people and stidents ARE the best way to spread the word about China versus bloggers.
1. Business people who are doing business internationally have a global view and mindset to begin with. They are not territorial like a geeky blogger, but are open to new regions and countries to increase business and better relations.
2. Business People DO EVANGELIZE. I am proud to say that from mouth to mouth recommendations I have gotten over 6 of my counterparts in Canada and the US to consider China based on my glowing recommendations of doing business in China and of the Chinese people (again not bloggers)
3. If you take US bloggers (again I dont think A-listers will be interested) on a trip to China and they meet resistance and or animosity…they will blog about this and infer that the Chinese bloggers who they met on the trip are the norm for all Chinese (they most surely are not) and that will set relations back.
Finally..what I do find interesting and hypocritical about Peng37 is that he is from Hong Kong. Thus why is he speaking for mainland Chinese bloggers? How from Hong Kong can he say what bloggers in Guangzhou will feel about this proposed meetup and tour?
Perhaps a couple of the prominent Chinese maninland bloggers can chime in here….
Are Peng37′s viewpoints on North American bloggers and his animosity towards Elliott and Christine the same as yours or is he an exception that we should look beyond in terms of our perceptions (that we are forming at this moment) of Chinese bloggers. (
To clarify what John writes above, the CNBloggerCon planning committee, which this year I am on, is not only fully behind what Christine and Elliott have planned, but already well on way toward making it a useful exchange experience for those who decide to participate. Given the attention that was paid to last year’s event by Scoble and others, I don’t see as much reason as John does to assume outright, and based on so little context, that there is any need to be pessimistic about this. John, if you’re sincerely interested in improving relations between China and the rest of the world, which I have no doubt that you are, the blogging community is waiting for you and your trade missions start doing more about the pollution throughout Guangdong province and many other parts of China that foreign business and foreign-owned factories have played such a large role in exacerbating.
What I wrote above, btw, was just an attempt to reflect the larger, complicated picture of what’s going on in preparation for this year’s CNBloggerCon, and not representative of my thoughts on Christine and Elliott’s (or anyone’s) participation per se.
@John,
Thanks so much for your support, it is appreciated. I think the business community can be a positive force but feel like people with an audience and an online voice can also be a positive force! Bloggers are diverse and no doubt many of them are not interested in a gaining a broader perspective. We’ll just plan to exclude those bloggers from the tour. A small number (we’re just targeting 10!) can make a big difference.
Feng37 (not Peng37) is John Kennedy of Global Voices Online, who has been doing an incredible job at bringing China to the world via his content on Global Voices. In fact, he live-blogged (live translated and live-blogged) the last CNBloggerCon. I’m sure the sentiments he expressed are likely to be common out there so we need to take them into account.
John,
You never know what I might do. I’m more likely to come to a blogging conference in China than just about any other country in the world. Especially if lots of people start reading http://china.alltop.com/.
Guy
long time reader (plagiarist of this blog’s content), first time poster.
John said:
‘Likewise, prominent bloggers like Sam Lawrence, Stowe Boyd, Guy Kawasaki etc will not have any interest in attending this Blogger meetup’.
What is their official statement on this idea?
Very interesting discussion you’ve got started here and one that i celebrate. Now, I’m neither from China nor North America (I’m from Iceland) but I think that your attempt to open up a discussion between bloggers in China and the west is a great thing. I don’t quite get the discussion about the business delegates as I can’t see why it shouldn’t be both. The more channels of dialogs we can open, the better and bloggers are just one more voice to spread understanding and interest in different opinions, meanings and cultures.
It’s important for us all, whether in China, the US, Canada or my tiny little nation, Iceland, that we are willing to listen to different opinions and accept that people have different meanings and understandings of things.
Regarding Guy and his alltop.com, it has impressed me how he has been willing to add different opinions and believes on his site, encouraging people to read blogs they do not agree with. It’s no challenge or gain from reading just blogs that echo your own voice. I believe Guy would be a perfect candidate for the CNBloggerCon.
Good luck with this effort and I hope it will ignite a lot more discussions like this one in the months up to the conference, without going up in flames.
You should talk with Steve Dickinson of China Law Blog about all of this because he spoke at last year’s event and was, as far as I know, the only Western blogger to do so. He also participated in a panel discussion. All of his speaking was in Chinese and I got the strong sense from Steve that English would not work there because it would just slow things down too much. Jeremy Goldkorn, John Kennedy, and Rebecca McKinnon attended last year’s event so it would certainly make sense to try to bring those three stellar individuals on board as well and if they are not interested, that ought to speak volumes.
Steve was not subject to even a hint of hostility when he spoke last year, but I think you are absolutely right to be very sensitive to not crashing this year’s party.
For those who are really interested in learning about China and the many directions it is going now, there are plenty of blogs which US and western bloggers can post their comments on. They do not have to wait for a Chinese blogger event to happen before China pops up on their radar, all they need to do is start reading, thinking about, and commenting on China or China-related events NOW.
There is plenty of substantial thought and discourse going on now, already, and there is nothing to prevent westerners from joining the conversation. In fact, their participation would be very welcome.
I have written about this in my most recent article on China Vortex: http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/06/can-blogging-help-foster-international-understanding/
Elliott, thanks for your comment on my blog which I just saw.
I only attended the first Chinese Bloggercon in November 2005 in Shanghai. I was very impressed with the bottom-up grassroots nature of the movement in China, and the very impressive level of discourse. It was truly awesome to see how much positive thinking could come out of such a movement. They were also extremely intelligent and practical. Politics and official policy were only hinted at and not discussed, not out of fear, but because they had so many other things to talk about.
So far, I don’t think that American leading bloggers get this at all. I think that, in some part, the reaction of Feng37 is due to the westerners’ failing to understand the many nuances and dynamics which are here at work in China.
Then, there is the greater fear among Chinese bloggers that the event will become more about high-profile American bloggers in China, than it is about Chinese bloggers and what they are doing in China. In order to get media attention in the US, they would then trash-talk in China to get media attention in the US to their home audiences. Although they have never followed China, or even have that much interest in it, they need to say something about China to impress their audiences. The easiest way to do that is to talk about human rights, freedom and democracy, and rule of law, which Robert Scoble has just done in the past few days on his Google Reader Shared Items feed.
If this happened there would be very little substantial to come out of the event. Instead, it would turn into a fiasco, and there would be a lasting bad impression of each other on both sides. Instead of some friendship and respect for each other, there would be deepened hostility for each other.
I am in no way negative about this event. It’s just that the Chinese are usually too polite to point out what they are thinking and fear is about to happen. Then when something bad does happen, they tend to over-react after the fact. Then the westerners start talking about how dangerous the Chinese are because they are angry, and then start upping their defense budgets.
All of us have seen this happen many times before, and we don’t want to see it happen again. When China/west relations go bad, this is often how it starts.
…points well taken. So my question is then Paul, given that you are in no way negative about the event, how can we best leverage the opportunity of having the east-west meetups take place in Beijing and Shanghai?
I guess I’m a pretty simple person. While I agree that reading and talking on blogs is great, there is a big difference I’ve seen between the interaction of those behind a computer writing at each other and about each other…and those that sit face to face in the same room and are able to meet in person, interact, share ideas, opinions, etc.
There’s nothing like hopping on a plane and experiencing the country and people for yourself while getting the opportunity to meet some key influencers in each city to enhance any understanding that is gained for first person experience.
Point well taken that the Chinese are usually too polite to point out what they are thinking and fear is about to happen. But my point is, why assume that something bad does happen? What if, good does come from this? What if the westerners don’t react in the negative way they are expected to because they had the opportunity to be invited as guest to have a look see? What if the Chinese don’t become angry but open and warm up to the idea of being able to show key influencers China first hand?
I’ll give you an example. I’m Chinese-American. Unlike you being fluent in Chinese, I’ve spent over a decade involved in doing business in China without every grasping the language (I’m just no good at it. The byproduct of immigrating to the US at age 2 and not liking school). I’ve always been just a bit too “Americanized” by those I worked with during my years there. Being completely aware of this, I was in all honesty…extremely intimidated by the idea of meeting up with the Beijing and Shanghai CNBloggercon committee. Didn’t know what to expect. Didn’t know if our idea would be well received. At both dinners, we felt very genuinely welcomed. Our idea was not interpreted as anything more than what it started out as — a simple desire to do something about the lack of understanding about China based on limited exposure and first hand experience to it.
Call me naive, or a bit crazy to think that this might actually help China/west relations rather than hurt it. But regardless, it’s something that has not been done before and we would very much like to try with the support of those we’ve met on both sides who have so far expressed such support. The key now is in the execution, not the debate — as to whether this will work or not.
At the end of the day, even if it turns out to be 10 bloggers who had a chance to meet some really cool people (such as yourself) in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou and see China first hand. It will be worth it.
Paul,
The big danger here is lumping all Canadians and Americans in the same boat.
Scoble doesnt speak for me. Stephen Harper doesnt speak for me…I speak for myself. Thus when Scoble posts opinions about China those are his opinions. (Get angry with Scoble…not everyone else)
Your comments are great Paul but further undescore what I said in my earlier comments. Bloggers cannot be relied on to be a bridge between cultures. We must continue (as has always been the case with great Chinese traders right Paul) to rely on business to open up lines of communication and to eventually bridge cultures.
When you interact with others in a business context then you dont normally get into macho turf wars that I have noticed that bloggers as a whole like to engage in.
Finally Paul I will leave you with one more comment. It is a two way street. I have seen a couple of cases (Even Elliott and Christine’s efforts) where westerners (either North American or Western European) have made efforts to engage with Chinese A-List bloggers and have been rebuffed. They were rebuffed either because they did not speak Manadarin or Cantonese or because they were not completely up to speed on all current events happening in China. My opinion is that when you do have someone reach out in a positive way you should reciprocate becuase that person is honoring your culture by having an interest.
This is how it works in the business world…I believe bloggers have to grow up a bit and mature for it to work in the blogosphere
@Christine–
You need to differentiate between being polite to people and having a good time and fostering the climate for deep understanding. Unfortunately, for most people, China is only going to be a blip on their radar. The key question is how to set the stage for a longer engagement for those who want to get that much more involved.
The way to do this, I believe, is to form a committee to get the right kinds of American/Canadians involved. I do not think Robert Scoble is the right kind of person because he is a media gadfly who just wants to get attention for himself, and then claim that after five days, he has completely figured out China, and tell his followers that now China is becoming open, thanks to Robert Scoble.
The right people are the kinds who are willing to start an open and intelligent dialogue, not just go on a media junket and score a couple business class tickets to China and stay in five-star hotels.
As to your point about “Why assume that something bad is going to happen?”, I have a very simple response. Because it has. Not once, but over and over again. You were not in China when the Carrefour and Tibet-related stuff happened. People like Andrew Lih, Kaiser Kuo and William Moss, people who have lived in China for some time and have a deep understanding of what happens in this country know that an ugly variety of nationalism can raise its head very quickly in China, both on a national scale, and on a much smaller event scale. In order to be sensitive to this, you have to know the language and culture and the dynamics at work.
I have never questioned your intentions, but as you yourself have said, the key is execution. The Chinese are not going to challenge to you on the idea, and neither am I. But the key is who you invite and what they bring. Who do you want to invite? Why have them on board? What is their motivation? Is it going to be about themselves? (If so, they should be deleted from the guest list.) What can they add to the conversation? What insights can they bring?
Since you live in the US, and by your own admission do not have as good a grasp as you would like, I’d suggest that you put together a committee (the people named above would be ideal) to form a China committee to work out the details, including which westerners would be good to have.
@John
You say that Robert Scoble and Stephen Harper don’ speak for you. Congratulations, you are more intelligent than most people. The trouble is that you have far fewer followers than either of them. Given the same amount of time, Robert Scoble and Stephen Harper can do far more damage by creating more misunderstanding than you can.
I don’t believe that bloggers are the only way to foster understanding, and do believe that business also helps. I am not claiming that one or the other needs to win out over the others, or is better than the others. I too am involved in business and in fact, I gained a significant part of my understanding of China through doing business, and continue to do so. Whatever useful information/knowledge I impart through my blog comes from my experience working in business in China, along with education, etc.
As for the rebuffs from Chinese bloggers, I can understand where they are coming from, although I don’t agree with their behavior. I would just say that the Chinese bloggers tend to be deeper thinkers than many of their western counterparts, and they don’t want to spend their time (in their opinions, waste their time) explaining China to someone who only has a passing interest in the subject.
I write a reasonably popular blog about family travel, and I’d get on a plane to China in a Shanghai minute to learn more about the perspectives, hopes and aspirations of Chinese bloggers. My blog’s host, the travel site BootsnAll, is also interested in this idea. There is NO substitute for face-to-face, and I envy the person who just wrote a two-part guest series on my blog about taking her young kids to Beijing for a visit.
If I encountered hostility as a visiting blogger, I’m quite equipped to handle it – I’ve lived as an American expat in the Middle East, Asia and Europe, and I’m well aware of the beating that our national reputation has taken in recent years.
Thanks very much to the organizers for attempting to move this forward….
John,
Scoble may not speak for you or most people, that is true. But he gets the megaphone. The mainstream US media in general likes loud voices, bold colors and easy-to-digest headlines. Nuance is not their game, and neither is complex dialogue.
I think Paul has the money quote of the day — insight without vilifying either side:
“It’s just that the Chinese are usually too polite to point out what they are thinking and fear is about to happen. Then when something bad does happen, they tend to over-react after the fact. Then the westerners start talking about how dangerous the Chinese are because they are angry, and then start upping their defense budgets… When China/west relations go bad, this is often how it starts.”
So for Christine and Elliott, the key is to setup an event structurally for which the risk of falling into this perennial trap can be minimized. Create the right expectations, line up the right people, create the right type of forum to create dialogue and not pontification. Putting five people on a panel to and letting them go at-it will probably bring about the worst possible result.
One tack that has been done in other conferences: break into small groups with a mix of people, highlight the biggest sources of contention, get people to propose actionable solutions. This was something I’ve done before with East-West conferences (ie. Asia Society).
Create something persistent that memorializes the conversation, that can be used as a touchstone for those beyond the immediate audience — a monograph, a documentary, a style guide. Create meaningful regular and long-lasting interactions after the conference as followup. A regular podcast hosted by CBN or something else.
It’s easy to get wrapped up with the personalities, and simply let the “social magic” work, but after organizing many conferences, you notice that the right format makes all the difference.
@fuzheado (Andrew) and @pdenlinger,
Thanks for these nuanced explanations. I feel I have learned more on this post from these comments than any other post to date. I’ve had good interactions with Scoble but also fear for the worst and feel there needs to be a certain commitment to a course of study prior to one’s involvement to demonstrate some desire to enter into real dialogue and not just try to create controversy and fame for one’s self.
@feng37, I appreciate both the warnings and the support.
@SheilaS, I already know your blog and that you are emblematic of the kind of blogger that has consistently sought out a global and cosmopolitan point of view, and I’m confident that we will be working together in the days to come!
@John, I am thinking about your advice and warnings. I am hopeful that thoughtful bloggers *can* make a big difference.
We’ll take these comments and do some thinking offline and how to best proceed based on this great feedback! I’m committed to the objectives above and look forward to exploring the best way to achieve those objectives.
Hello,
May I offer a little advice? I’m all for warm and fuzzy and I really dig lots of bloggers in both Putonghua and English. However, you cannot expect everyone who reads blogs to be fully plugged-in and engaged about China. Its unfair (and a bit self-important) to expect everyone to have the same level of understanding that you’ll do per China.
That’s not to say that ill-informed, inflamatory or loaded posts by bloggers is okay. I would just like to point out that most readers are not going to be fluent in the language AND the culture, but readers still expect insightful comments. I think a lot of western bloggers view anyone who hasn’t been there and done that (as they have) as someone they need to educate and “filter” China for. Thats the kind of paternal attitude that does no one any good.
If I read a blog about France, Suiza, Austrailia, I don’t expect the blogger to constantly behave as if he were writing about a petulant drama queen who cannot handle a bit of scrutiny. So why do you all feel so motherly towards the motherland? Criticism, examination, pointed remarks – it happens to Kenya, England, Germany, etc. Certainly China, one of the world’s biggest economies and host to the Olympics, can be discussed by those other than the “experts” with some degree of intelligence, no?
I say this because I’ve noticed a strong tendency for China bloggers to write things along the lines of “westerners who don’t understand China must tread carefully and not bruise this precious newcomer to the world scene”. What is this, a sweet sixteen party? Again, I’m all for sharp and informed blogging on China, but you guys get too carried away in mystifying China (so you can thus demystify it).
As for the Chinese side, toughen up a little. Instead of expecting no one to criticize you, try expecting them to at least not be racist and unfair in their criticisms. I mean, what will happen if the Dutch criticize Chinese policy on X or Y, will you boycott tulips, windmills and clogs?
Cheers,
MGL
The “anglophone blogosphere” is dominated by consultants and web 2.0 media analysts who have a vested interest in making China an attractive investment option. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but don’t treat your audience like idiots: we know you’re making money out of this. I’m not saying cnreviews is willfully misleading, but I am saying many other prominent “bloggers” are. They are advocating “more dialogue” while at the same time financially benefitting from “redecorating” the more unpalatable aspects of Chinese reality. The most successful strategy being to claim that any critisism results from ignorance about the “real” China. The argument seems to be that “more dialogue” will lead everyone to finally agree with everything bad that happens in China. Anything short of agreement means you are still just an ignorant China-basher.
Like I said in a comment on Paul Denlinger’s site, which was apparently “harmonized” out of existence: Blogging is a new kind of advertising. Consultants can afford to spend 12 hours a day SEO-ing their blogs — the very service most of them offer to prospective clients. These people are getting a very disproportionate “market-share” of the readership and therefore of the opinions of “ignorant” Westerners. Again: nothing wrong with advertising, but don’t dress it up in sheeps clothing.
And yes, I know I should learn more about China and its history.
So, what are the selection criteria for foreigners blogging about China? Is this only for people who blog in Chinese, or English-language bloggers as well? And how do you define A-list?
@ John #22:
I don’t think these bloggers you refer to are likely to ‘grow up a bit and mature” without actually experiencing China and the Chinese people first hand.
I agree that business people and students may have more vested interests in “getting” China than bloggers who have become media personalities with a vested interest in catering to their audiences. That’s one reason why adex360 exists, to bring young people to experience China in ways relevant to them. Still, encouraging businesses and students doesn’t mean we should exclude bloggers. In asking these bloggers to avoid presumptions about China, we should avoid presumptions about them.
@ Paul Denlinger #23:
Who said anything about 5-star hotels? Motel 168 would be a much more intereting experience! I actually do firmly suggest that we avoid pampering the bloggers participating on this tour, as it would actually be counterproductive for understanding the diversity of circumstance, and thus perception, within China and its populace.
Now, I do think it is important for everyone to understand that bringing these bloggers over to China (and how their experience is shaped) does present a significant amount of risk. Several people on this thread have shared such and I agree. But, as Christine and Elliott have expressed, doing so also presents a significant opportunity. No risk, no reward. These people have influence and whatever they eventually do in response to their experiences in China could either help or harm.
And we can never escape that conundrum.
So yes, I do think involving some experienced expat personalities in this might help, but sooner or later we’re going to have to accept that there are certain things we cannot hope to prevent. Sooner or later, we have to accept that the mere chance to experience brings us one step closer to a better understanding. We can’t plan away the potential for misunderstanding and the consequences of idiocy. I hate to use cliches but international engagement with China has probably yieleded more benefits than problems. Of course, we’ll never run out of problems to nitpick, but what’s the alternative, really?
Every day, hundreds of Chinese travel companies bus about sardine cans of foreign tourists, herding them to tourist traps in the middle of nowhere to fleece ungodly kickbacks and commissions off the unsuspecting. Do you have any idea how much negative publicity this vicious cycle generates for China? The seemingly endless hordes of gullible foreign tourists make such a scheme continually profitable. If it isn’t sanitized tourist sights, it’s the tired guilt-trip that Westerners should be generous to the poor barbaric Chinese villagers with condescending tips and handouts. In light of this alternative, I’d much rather these bloggers come see China via Christine and Elliott’s vision than otherwise, where there is a chance (yes, a chance) that they might engage in some enlightening discourse with both normal and influencial Chinese from various walks of life. Yeah, there will be language barriers, but what’re you going to do about it?
John, Paul, Dan, etc. each of you are the products of countless foreigners who took the risk to come here and somehow came out of it with an understanding that you’re putting to work for (hopefully) positive ends. What about all the others who didn’t end up like you guys? Feng37 gets plenty of flak amongst the native Chinese crowd, but he’s still doing something contributory towards greater understanding of the Chinese (or, just highlighting all of the nationalistic news that gets foreign panties in a mad-comment-posting twist). Each of you very likely had to learn as you went, and I’m pretty certain it all began with the simple decision to just come here.
That’s what Christine and Elliott, amongst others, are doing. Should they crash a party they’re not invited to? No, but I think they’ve firmly established the goal that its a tour for bridging gaps, for keeping your eyes and ears open with the patience to think before judging. Hopefully…just hopefully, it’ll result in more informed blogging to their readership in the future. And at the very least, Christine, Elliott, those of us at CNR, and elsewhere…well, we will have tried.
Motel 168, man, I’m telling you…
@ cerebus:
Interesting comments.
What we are seeing here are cultural misunderstandings. The way we communicate in America, the Netherlands, Iceland or China is different. In my part of the world (Iceland) people tend to be very straight forward and sometimes “brutally honest”.
So what may seem like a normal way of communicating to me may be considered shocking and politically incorrect in America or very rude in China. We can’t expect the average blogger to be aware of that so it is clear that bloggers will insult each other without understanding how or why.
A blogger conference like this one is an excellent way of opening eyes to those factors, to the difference in the way we communicate, the way we see normality, the way we see human rights. Some people think their view is the right one and everybody else’s is the wrong one. This may help bloggers in both east and west understand that what is right for one doesn’t have to be right for another. They don’t have to understand why or how, just accepting this fact will be a great step.
I’m not an expert in this field, but as both an anthropologist and an international blogger this topic is of great interest to me.
Hey,I’d like to join your meeting if possiable. Am in Beijing. sounds not that difficult, I can tell you a direct feeling of a native Beijinger if you need. on business,education,NGOs and environmental protection. I have full experece in that.
hotel,yeah,i can reserve any hotel if you guys need with a pretty discount rate. sorry,Elliott,i made an ad here. but i thought every dont want an expensive one.